|By Derek Ferguson||
|August 10, 2004 12:00 AM EDT||
.NETDJ: What is your official title and department?
Don Box: I am an architect in the Distributed Systems Group. I am responsible for the protocols and the plumbing that we do in that group. I'm on an architecture team, so the responsibility is distributed, but basically five other architects and I work on the WS-* protocols, Indigo, and the stuff that leads up to Indigo, such as work on ASMX and Web Services Enhancements (WSE).
.NETDJ: How did you get started in computer technologies?
DB: I started programming in 1983 as an undergraduate math student. After that, I went to graduate school, then started a company and had a ton of fun in the 1990s doing COM. In 2001, I decided to get a real job so I came to Microsoft. At the ripe old age of 39, I had my first HR review (where I was on the receiving side). It was pretty wild, actually.
.NETDJ: Tell us about founding your company.
DB: Let's see - a good friend of mine, Andrew Harrison, was teaching at University of California (UC) Irvine Extension. He was the TA in all of the hardest theory classes and the smartest guy I knew at UC Irvine. Andrew made teaching seem both easy and fun, so I talked to him about it and we wrote a class together. After teaching it at Oregon Graduate Institute (OGI), I said "Wow - this is a very easy and fun way to make money, so maybe I'll start a company." And then I brought in my grad student cronies and the rest is history.
.NETDJ: What was your first class?
DB: Essential Windows was our first class in 1994. In that same year, I wrote the Essential COM class. August 8 was the first day I delivered that class. I remember it vividly because that was the day I figured out COM. Prior to that, I was able to make things work and I knew a lot of facts, but I had no insight and no intuitive understanding. In August, I was in Oregon teaching my first Essential COM class to a packed room of 24 people. It was in the first lecture that I made the connection between dynamic_cast and QueryInterface and that was when it all became obvious.
I taught COM for a good two years before I seriously entertained writing a book, and then it took two years to write.
.NETDJ: That book, Essential COM (Addison-Wesley), was released in 1998, then. Can you tell us about writing that book?
DB: When I tried to figure COM out, there was nothing to guide me. There was a Brockshmidt book that was decent and the Dale Rogersson book - which is a very "how" oriented book, but nothing really ever spoke to me as to what the real principles were. I figured it out in 1994 and traveled the world telling the story with Chris Sells, Tim Ewald, and Keith Brown. Over time, the story crystallized and the book spoke to people.
.NETDJ: What about David Chappell's book on COM - wasn't that out then?
DB: Chappell's book came out a little before mine, although mine was already "in the can" when his book was done. I remember he sent me a copy from the first batch and he put a note in it that there wasn't one line of code in the whole book. While his book was excellent and I recommend it as the prerequisite to reading my book, it doesn't help you really to understand it from a programmer's view. For most software engineers, it won't directly answer the question, "How does COM relate to me?" Even though I'm an architect and I do think about very broad issues, at the end of the day someone has to write a program and I'm fortunate to stay grounded at that level - even though I'm in my advanced years with a high falutin' title.
.NETDJ: Tell us about your first experiences with Web services? How did you come to be involved in the standardization of SOAP?
DB: Back in 1995, Microsoft wanted to see Distributed COM (DCOM) everywhere. They had contracted with Software AG to do COM on Unix - and Microsoft recommended that they get me to help them. I worked in Germany for a while and we basically did it by emulating NT on Unix and because of that, it wasn't a smashing success. Microsoft had hoped that that would be the big thing that brought everyone together, but the engineering didn't work out.
In 1997, Bob Atkinson and Mohsen Al Goshein of Microsoft had decided to go off and try RPC using XML. Dave Reed, the general manager of COM at the time, said that they should get me because I know platforms and so they brought me and Dave Winer to Microsoft to write the first SOAP specification in March of 1998. We wrote it in two days. The three of us worked on the first SOAP specification and within a couple of weeks we had Interop working between COM and Java.
.NETDJ: Tell us about leaving DevelopMentor to go to Microsoft.
DB: Keith Brown, Chris Sells, and I were visiting Microsoft. Someone wanted us to meet with someone who was working on Web services in late 2001. All the .NET stuff was in late beta at that point, but we'd already published the SOAP specification and I knew how the Web services stuff all worked. I met with Mark Lucovsky and Mark Burner from the Hailstorm team and I also met with Robert Wahbe, John Shewchuk, and Andrew Layman of the Indigo team.
I had some very interesting conversations with the Hailstorm guys, but there was something about what the Indigo folks were working on - basically that they were going to take the idea of XML-based messaging and make it as ubiquitous as possible. I asked them how widespread they were going to make it and they said, "How far do you want to go?" That was the moment when I decided.
At that point in time, I was in the process of trying to separate myself from my then-partner at Develop Mentor and was trying to figure out what the next decade of my life would look like. When I saw Indigo, I knew I had found my new tribe, so things got remarkably clear after that. There was a Microsoft Professional Developers Conference (PDC) shortly after that and I sat down with Eric Rudder in Los Angeles and I came up and interviewed with the folks on the Indigo team and that was it. We loaded up the truck and moved to Bellevue (Washington, that is).
.NETDJ: I'm perfectly happy using ASMX for Web services - why should I care about Indigo?
DB: ASMX is the closest to "the truth" of all our shipping technologies for distributed computing. If you are doing service-oriented programming, ASMX is the easiest to use and the most likely to keep you on the straight and narrow. You have to work harder to do the wrong thing. .NET remoting is more unbounded and happily allows you to do both right and wrong things with equal ease.
There is nothing wrong with ASMX. It has some limitations. One of the limitations is that the current implementation is bound to ASP.NET and pragmatically, that means it is really about working over HTTP. It can work over other transports, but there is no easy way to do that...some assembly is required. So, as people want to use other transports, ASMX won't be enough.
ASMX also has a very coarse-grained extensibility model. SOAP Extensions allow you to replace pieces of the plumbing, but only with a very coarse-grained tool. If I want to see the actual bits as they go in or come out, or the stack frame, there are integration points exposed for this. However, if I want to see the intermediate XML, I have a lot of work to do. For example, Web Services Enhancements (WSE), has to do some fairly obscure back-flips in order to fit into this model and to do XML-based processing. The ASMX/WSE user doesn't see this, but it's definitely more work for us than it should have been.
.NETDJ: So, how will Indigo be better than WSE 2.0?
DB: WSE 2.0 brings end-to-end security to the current ASMX code base, but it has to do some rather "interesting" engineering to make that happen. Since we built Indigo from the ground up with XML messaging as "the thing" it is a lot easier to plumb.
There are a lot of implementation choices in ASMX we wouldn't make again. For example, there is a high reliance on code generation under ASMX. If you look at Indigo, we don't do code generation - we let the runtime do stack-to-message translations.
Indigo will still support the [WebMethod] attribute and friends if developers want to use the old names. There is a compatibility namespace so that the right namespaces are in scope and we will support most of the current attributes out of the box. If you want to think of Indigo as just a new implementation of the Web services plumbing, go ahead - there is a class of developers who will just do this.
.NETDJ: So, is Indigo mainly for SOA, then?
DB: It is very obvious how to do service-oriented development with ASMX - you don't need Indigo for that. What Indigo enables is if you want to do more advanced messaging - such as rich support for intermediaries and end-to-end security. Indigo is a great solution if you want integration with our transactional plumbing.
.NETDJ: I happened to see you performing with Band on the Runtime at the PDC last October (2003) in Los Angeles. What can you tell us about that?
DB: Ted Pattison, David Chappell ,and I are all friends and David had suggested playing music together in the past, as had Ted. We did a conference in San Francisco where we said, "Let's do some Filk" - which is the art of taking popular songs and rewriting the lyrics to be about something else. Any time the three of us would be at a conference together, we'd try to put the band together and play a gig.
.NETDJ: I especially liked your song Miguel - a Filk version of the Beatles' Michelle about Ximian's Miguel de Icaza, no?
DB: Yes it is. The song was really a recruiting tune, as I think Miguel should work at Microsoft. He's got a lot of energy and a lot of creativity, and I think he would have an excellent time working at "the Firm." I think it would be good for him and good for us.
.NETDJ: While we're on the topic of music, Jeff Richter told us a few months ago that you are a Progressive Rock fan. Who are your favorite artists?
DB: Jeff and I went to see King Crimson last time they were in Seattle. Jeff is much more fanatical about it than I am. I like the stuff - I have a lot of CDs and had a lot of vinyl back in the day, but Jeff is...I don't know anyone as fanatical about a kind of music as Jeff!
.NETDJ: What are your thoughts on Tech Ed this year?
DB: I've been giving my talks. I had an extremely fun time giving the devices talk. Those guys have some fun technology that I like to play with. And I got to show my COM underwear on the wolf vision projector.
.NETDJ: Yes, I saw that! Where, exactly, does one even buy COM underwear?
DB: COM underwear is a collector's item. We probably made several thousand pairs back in the day and I peeled 14 off one of the shipments to take home. For a while, that was the only underwear I wore. For years of my life I always was wearing COM underwear. Now I only wear it on special occasions. For example, I am not wearing COM underwear right now.
.NETDJ: Have you ever been mistaken for Jon Box (NETDJ's Mobility Editor)?
DB: The first time that ever happened was at Tech Ed this year. I went to register and they wanted to give me Jon Box's badge. I'm sure David Chappell was really pissed off when that guy from the J2EE world started using his name - at least Jon Box is on my side of the fence!
.NETDJ: Tell us about Essential .NET.
DB: So, I wrote Essential .NET, Volume I: The Common Language Runtime (Addison-Wesley, 2003) about the CLR and I tried to do what I did with Essential COM, which was to answer the questions that I had. It was to answer the questions about why .NET is the way that it is. I'm not very good at writing tutorials - but I'm pretty good at figuring out design motivations. As I get older, I have more historical context. I can see the echoes of old things in new things.
.NETDJ: What path would you recommend for someone with a background in non-native platforms such as Visual Basic or Java, who wants to learn .NET internals?
DB: I think the best preparation is to write code - a good programmer will inevitably ask, "Why is it this way?" The book is really an exploration of how .NET is designed and why. If you are a person who benefits from that kind of analysis, it will benefit you. If you aren't, then my stuff is just esoteric ravings.
.NETDJ: What is your order of preference between speaking, coding, and writing?
DB: I like to write, then code, and then speak. Of all the things I can do, writing is the one that gives me the best catharsis. For me at least, writing starts with a story inside of me that I need to get out and then propagate it efficiently. There is nothing like writing!
Finishing a writing project gives you a feeling like having a baby. It's like, "Finally, this thing is outside of my body!" but - unlike a baby - a book doesn't need to be changed or breastfed. You get a sense of release when you get done writing something.
Coding is what I do to understand. I find that coding is an exercise in self-education - that's how I get my ideas.
I also get ideas through speaking, but speaking is just what one does everyday. I'm speaking right now...whether I do this in front of 1000, 5000, or 3 people doesn't matter. Some people are listening and some people aren't, but speaking is as natural to me as eating. Actually, I like eating better!
.NETDJ: Who do you most like to hear speaking about development nowadays?
DB: I love listening to David Chappell - I just think he is great. I also like listening to Ted Pattison - he is a great guy. Pat Helland is wonderful to listen to. That is my short list, I think.
.NETDJ: What do you make of the recent warming of relations between Microsoft, Sun, and Oracle?
DB: We all share the same customers and our customers want our stuff to work together. The whole premise of doing this kind of integration is all about making our stuff work with everyone else's - realizing that we can't get NT running on every box. People are nice enough to invite us into their datacenters, and interop is just good manners. Our customers are going to have non-Microsoft systems and we want to make sure that we are good guests.
.NETDJ: What are your thoughts on global outsourcing?
DB: (Thoughtful pause)...Can't ignore it! It is very real. Developers should perceive outsourcing as an opportunity. What choice do we have? Seeing it as a threat doesn't buy you anything - you have nothing to gain from that. A much more interesting approach is to say, "How can I take the fact that I have less expensive labor and harness it to my benefit?"
.NETDJ: Do you hold any software certifications - MCP, MCAD, MCSD, etc.? Why or why not?
DB: I have an MS in computer science. Why do I have that? Because I was in grad school for a very long time and they give you a Masters somewhere along the way to a PhD. Beyond that, I just never had a need for certification.
.NETDJ: You talked about the failure of Java and the illusion of choice during your general session at Tech Ed yesterday? Could you elaborate on that topic a little more?
DB: I've had a really lucky life. The DCOM experience was very illustrative...the notion that we could get OLE32 to run on every machine on the planet. The plan was to take the COM runtime and make that run on every computing device on the planet and that was going to be the way we got reach. That was just utter folly. It ignored the fact that not only do people have lots of investments that they hold dear for good reasons, but that there are all kinds of cultural differences. There are all kinds of different programmers and it is crazy to think that everyone is going to want to program the same way, which is what OLE32 imposed on the programmer. The practice of COM assumed that the entire programming universe will have the same kind of aesthetic.
We learned such a lesson with DCOM that now, with Web services, we are just saying, "Everyone programs in something different, so let's just do protocol-based integration, where we will just agree on the format of the messages we are going to exchange over the wire." We came to that realization in 1997, when Sun was full steam into that Java thing, which was very similar to the experience we had had with OLE32. They were even more intrusive than us because they had a runtime and a language, and to think that everyone in the world wants to use the same programming language is just naïve.
I can say this because I had exactly that belief when I was sitting in the cold parts of Germany porting DCOM to Unix and I saw what happened. I think the Java community has come around and realized that they are also guests in any given datacenter and that protocol-based integration is where it is at. I'm happy to see all of the Java vendors signing up to do XML-based messaging with the rest of us.
.NETDJ: What was your worst-ever moment on stage and how did you handle it?
DB: I have two experiences that stick out - one was the talk on Monday morning...I can't remember ever giving a talk and being that sick. I am in the middle of one of the most hellacious flus I have ever had and I know that I didn't do my best.
The other time, I had to sub for someone to teach an MFC class very early in the history of my teaching career and I just didn't care. I had no real passion for it and while I understood it and knew it, I didn't care about it and it was just utter torture for me. And so what I've really figured out from that was that I have to have skin in the game. If I'm going to talk, I really have to have an investment. So I started doing stunts so I would feel emotionally invested.
.NETDJ: What kind of stunts?
DB: I once gave a talk wearing only a speaker shirt, and then took that speaker shirt off in a room of 3000-4000 people...that was my first real stunt. I had toyed with things before, like to illustrate how apartments worked, I had people in the audience come up and hug and then I took it further to see if I could get people to kiss! I really want people to have an experience when they come to one of my talks. I want there to be something memorable. I started with that, then I did a couple of various stages of undress, with bathtubs and dancers.
If you Google me, you can find the bathtub images.
.NETDJ: What technologies coming out of Microsoft - besides Indigo - do you find most exciting?
DB: I love the devices stuff - that stuff is just so amazing. I am also having a wonderful time working with the new C# language features - it is very hard to go back. I had fallen in love with Standard ML and functional programming in general. When we started getting drops of the new C# compiler and between anonymous methods, iterators, and parameterized types, things felt exceedingly familiar.
.NETDJ: If you had to do your whole career over again thus far, what would you do differently?
DB: I wish I would have finished my PhD. I also would have paid more attention in the early years to the business side of DevelopMentor. I naively had the attitude that I could trust someone else to lead and run my company while I focused 100% on technology. I don't plan to ever make that mistake again. Lesson learned.
.NETDJ: What are your career goals at this point?
DB: To ship Indigo. After that, I'm confident the future will present itself - it always has in the past.
DevOps at Cloud Expo, taking place Nov 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, is co-located with 19th Cloud Expo and will feature technical sessions from a rock star conference faculty and the leading industry players in the world. The widespread success of cloud computing is driving the DevOps revolution in enterprise IT. Now as never before, development teams must communicate and collaborate in a dynamic, 24/7/365 environment. There is no time to wait for long dev...
Sep. 26, 2016 12:45 PM EDT Reads: 3,407
SYS-CON Events announced today that China Unicom will exhibit at the 19th International Cloud Expo, which will take place on November 1–3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. China United Network Communications Group Co. Ltd ("China Unicom") was officially established in 2009 on the basis of the merger of former China Netcom and former China Unicom. China Unicom mainly operates a full range of telecommunications services including mobile broadband (GSM, WCDMA, LTE F...
Sep. 26, 2016 12:45 PM EDT Reads: 1,729
Fifty billion connected devices and still no winning protocols standards. HTTP, WebSockets, MQTT, and CoAP seem to be leading in the IoT protocol race at the moment but many more protocols are getting introduced on a regular basis. Each protocol has its pros and cons depending on the nature of the communications. Does there really need to be only one protocol to rule them all? Of course not. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Chris Matthieu, co-founder and CTO of Octoblu, walk you through how Oct...
Sep. 26, 2016 12:45 PM EDT Reads: 2,022
Data is an unusual currency; it is not restricted by the same transactional limitations as money or people. In fact, the more that you leverage your data across multiple business use cases, the more valuable it becomes to the organization. And the same can be said about the organization’s analytics. In his session at 19th Cloud Expo, Bill Schmarzo, CTO for the Big Data Practice at EMC, will introduce a methodology for capturing, enriching and sharing data (and analytics) across the organizati...
Sep. 26, 2016 12:15 PM EDT Reads: 1,664
SYS-CON Events announced today that ReadyTalk, a leading provider of online conferencing and webinar services, has been named Vendor Presentation Sponsor at the 19th International Cloud Expo, which will take place on November 1–3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. ReadyTalk delivers audio and web conferencing services that inspire collaboration and enable the Future of Work for today’s increasingly digital and mobile workforce. By combining intuitive, innovative tec...
Sep. 26, 2016 12:00 PM EDT Reads: 2,780
The Transparent Cloud-computing Consortium (abbreviation: T-Cloud Consortium) will conduct research activities into changes in the computing model as a result of collaboration between "device" and "cloud" and the creation of new value and markets through organic data processing High speed and high quality networks, and dramatic improvements in computer processing capabilities, have greatly changed the nature of applications and made the storing and processing of data on the network commonplace.
Sep. 26, 2016 11:30 AM EDT Reads: 989
SYS-CON Events announced today that Commvault, a global leader in enterprise data protection and information management, has been named “Bronze Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 19th International Cloud Expo, which will take place on November 1–3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. Commvault is a leading provider of data protection and information management solutions, helping companies worldwide activate their data to drive more value and business insight and to transform moder...
Sep. 26, 2016 11:30 AM EDT Reads: 2,569
There is little doubt that Big Data solutions will have an increasing role in the Enterprise IT mainstream over time. Big Data at Cloud Expo - to be held November 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA - has announced its Call for Papers is open. Cloud computing is being adopted in one form or another by 94% of enterprises today. Tens of billions of new devices are being connected to The Internet of Things. And Big Data is driving this bus. An exponential increase is...
Sep. 26, 2016 11:30 AM EDT Reads: 2,537
SYS-CON Events announced today the Enterprise IoT Bootcamp, being held November 1-2, 2016, in conjunction with 19th Cloud Expo | @ThingsExpo at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. Combined with real-world scenarios and use cases, the Enterprise IoT Bootcamp is not just based on presentations but with hands-on demos and detailed walkthroughs. We will introduce you to a variety of real world use cases prototyped using Arduino, Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone, Spark, and Intel Edison. Y...
Sep. 26, 2016 11:15 AM EDT Reads: 2,865
Major trends and emerging technologies – from virtual reality and IoT, to Big Data and algorithms – are helping organizations innovate in the digital era. However, to create real business value, IT must think beyond the ‘what’ of digital transformation to the ‘how’ to harness emerging trends, innovation and disruption. Architecture is the key that underpins and ties all these efforts together. In the digital age, it’s important to invest in architecture, extend the enterprise footprint to the cl...
Sep. 26, 2016 11:06 AM EDT Reads: 148
Video experiences should be unique and exciting! But that doesn’t mean you need to patch all the pieces yourself. Users demand rich and engaging experiences and new ways to connect with you. But creating robust video applications at scale can be complicated, time-consuming and expensive. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Zohar Babin, Vice President of Platform, Ecosystem and Community at Kaltura, will discuss how VPaaS enables you to move fast, creating scalable video experiences that reach your...
Sep. 26, 2016 11:00 AM EDT Reads: 988
In his keynote at 18th Cloud Expo, Andrew Keys, Co-Founder of ConsenSys Enterprise, provided an overview of the evolution of the Internet and the Database and the future of their combination – the Blockchain. Andrew Keys is Co-Founder of ConsenSys Enterprise. He comes to ConsenSys Enterprise with capital markets, technology and entrepreneurial experience. Previously, he worked for UBS investment bank in equities analysis. Later, he was responsible for the creation and distribution of life sett...
Sep. 26, 2016 10:45 AM EDT Reads: 3,272
SYS-CON Events announced today that SoftLayer, an IBM Company, has been named “Gold Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 18th Cloud Expo, which will take place on June 7-9, 2016, at the Javits Center in New York, New York. SoftLayer, an IBM Company, provides cloud infrastructure as a service from a growing number of data centers and network points of presence around the world. SoftLayer’s customers range from Web startups to global enterprises.
Sep. 26, 2016 10:30 AM EDT Reads: 893
SYS-CON Events announced today that Bsquare has been named “Silver Sponsor” of SYS-CON's @ThingsExpo, which will take place on November 1–3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. For more than two decades, Bsquare has helped its customers extract business value from a broad array of physical assets by making them intelligent, connecting them, and using the data they generate to optimize business processes.
Sep. 26, 2016 10:00 AM EDT Reads: 2,688
Big Data has been changing the world. IoT fuels the further transformation recently. How are Big Data and IoT related? In his session at @BigDataExpo, Tony Shan, a renowned visionary and thought leader, will explore the interplay of Big Data and IoT. He will anatomize Big Data and IoT separately in terms of what, which, why, where, when, who, how and how much. He will then analyze the relationship between IoT and Big Data, specifically the drilldown of how the 4Vs of Big Data (Volume, Variety,...
Sep. 26, 2016 10:00 AM EDT Reads: 1,003
Cognitive Computing is becoming the foundation for a new generation of solutions that have the potential to transform business. Unlike traditional approaches to building solutions, a cognitive computing approach allows the data to help determine the way applications are designed. This contrasts with conventional software development that begins with defining logic based on the current way a business operates. In her session at 18th Cloud Expo, Judith S. Hurwitz, President and CEO of Hurwitz & ...
Sep. 26, 2016 09:45 AM EDT Reads: 2,861
WebRTC adoption has generated a wave of creative uses of communications and collaboration through websites, sales apps, customer care and business applications. As WebRTC has become more mainstream it has evolved to use cases beyond the original peer-to-peer case, which has led to a repeating requirement for interoperability with existing infrastructures. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Graham Holt, Executive Vice President of Daitan Group, will cover implementation examples that have enabled ea...
Sep. 26, 2016 09:00 AM EDT Reads: 1,529
The vision of a connected smart home is becoming reality with the application of integrated wireless technologies in devices and appliances. The use of standardized and TCP/IP networked wireless technologies in line-powered and battery operated sensors and controls has led to the adoption of radios in the 2.4GHz band, including Wi-Fi, BT/BLE and 802.15.4 applied ZigBee and Thread. This is driving the need for robust wireless coexistence for multiple radios to ensure throughput performance and th...
Sep. 26, 2016 08:15 AM EDT Reads: 1,545
Vidyo, Inc., has joined the Alliance for Open Media. The Alliance for Open Media is a non-profit organization working to define and develop media technologies that address the need for an open standard for video compression and delivery over the web. As a member of the Alliance, Vidyo will collaborate with industry leaders in pursuit of an open and royalty-free AOMedia Video codec, AV1. Vidyo’s contributions to the organization will bring to bear its long history of expertise in codec technolo...
Sep. 26, 2016 08:15 AM EDT Reads: 2,498
If you’re responsible for an application that depends on the data or functionality of various IoT endpoints – either sensors or devices – your brand reputation depends on the security, reliability, and compliance of its many integrated parts. If your application fails to deliver the expected business results, your customers and partners won't care if that failure stems from the code you developed or from a component that you integrated. What can you do to ensure that the endpoints work as expect...
Sep. 26, 2016 07:15 AM EDT Reads: 1,608